My New Mantra
My last post caused a bit of a stir, mainly because I was a bit of a jerk and quickly dismissed some folks who are, by many objective standards, actually cooler than I am. Sometimes I tend to get carried away with knocking down ideas which annoy me, and I forget that there are people and contexts behind those ideas which lend them a lot more weight and reason than I’d originally seen.
So to everyone I pissed off, I sincerely apologize. Matz is nice, so we are nice.
(I still don’t think search fits into CRUD, and I’m more than happy to haggle that one out to the bloody end.)
July 3rd, 2006 at 12:25pm
don’t worry. i don’t think your last post was mean at all. Josh Susser will always be my “AR Associations” hero, but i have to go with you on this one…
July 3rd, 2006 at 12:49pm
Hey Coda, no hard feelings. Like I said, I’m not sure about CRUDdy searches either, but I want to try it out and see how it works.
Do you get to the Ruby meetups in SF? We should grab a beer sometime and haggle over some design approaches!
July 3rd, 2006 at 12:58pm
I really wanted to go to the June meeting, but I work in Hayward so trying to make it from South Bay to the City in an hour just isn’t an option most of the time. I’d be willing to blow off work to go to the next one, but it’s all full up. I may just bootleg it and try to squeeze my way in via boyish charm and focused misdirection (”Holy crap! It’s DHH! Right over there!”), in which case I am totally interested in a nit-picky shop-talky pub session. If I end up going, I’ll post something about it here, for sure.
July 3rd, 2006 at 1:11pm
It’s ok to have an opinion and a little emotion in the writing is better than a bland blog entry. I think your writing really conveyed where you were or are concerned about the CRUD stuff. I’ve enjoyed the discussion. Thanks for stirring this pot.
July 4th, 2006 at 1:02am
Hey Coda, I thought it was a great post. You need people to question any approach, it’s healthy, provides validation to decisions made, and promotes debate. However, I’m with Sebastian, Josh is the AR associations king at the moment. ;-)
July 4th, 2006 at 4:44pm
Yeah, so, I somehow missed this whole debate. I am weighing in on Coda’s side. Search is *not* crud-pretty. Though, I do tend to make search models in general. Just to keep the logic separate, and I save people’s searches… so its not so bad. Though, I have to *create* a search? That’s a bit nutty. To the user it should be just executing a search. Not just user, API developer. I don’t want to develop an API for a site and “create” a search. That should be handled in the back-end entirely.
Maybe it should be SCRUD?
/person/search?first_name=”equals[fuddy]“&last_name=”contains[duddy]]”
If anything, its a form of reading than creating. Bah, anyhow. I don’t think you were too harsh at all. I mean, jesus, read Zed’s blog to get a sense of what being harsh is all about!
Secondly, how much are plane tickets from Toronto to San Fran, because I’d love to be in on that conversation!
-hampton “find/search obsessed” catlin.
July 5th, 2006 at 12:23am
What, Zed “Programmers Must Learn Statistics Or I Will F**king Kill Them” Shaw? Yeah, he’s definitely got opinions, and he’s even more bombastic than me about throwing them out there (c.f. Zed Shaw vs. Debian), but he’s also got way better chops than I do, so he’s more worth listening to.
And as far as me being harsh, when every single person I referenced in my post chips in with “Wow, dick move” (paraphrased) I figure I need to step back and take a deep breath, and remind myself that only six-sigma tools like Enterprisey McGovern deserve my wrath. Or ire. Or pissiness.
But yeah, search and REST are not natural bedmates, and it’s only via hackery and handwaving that they play together at all. Like you, I’m comfortable introducing a little MEP into the works when it smoothes things along.
And we may have to just wait for RailsConf 2007 for boozed-up, neighbor-rousting, rolling arguments about web semantics. Because I know I’m sure as hell going, even if it means jumping a boxcar up to Portland and sleeping in the hotel lobby.
July 5th, 2006 at 12:38am
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